Interview with Fins: Part 2
Part of the "VR is Alive" Artist Spotlight Series
For this interview we are fortunate to have Fins (he/him) joining us to chat about his creative process and advice. Fins joins us from VRChat, where he specializes in building some amazingly detailed worlds in social VR!
Feel free to watch the shorter video if you have less time, or watch the full video to get to know more about Fins.
: What general advice do you have for for newer social VR world builders?
Fins: I would say world building, like any kind of other creative endeavor, requires fundamental knowledge. It's not a requirement to get started as much as learning how you do it along the way just like everything else. It's always helpful to look at world building with the same respect and the same lens that you see like drawing or 3D modeling or anything else. Because world creation is encompassing of all of that. It's always helpful that you also learn how to do art, maybe 2D, maybe 3D, learn a little bit more 3D modeling, learn a bit more lighting, environmental design, environmental layout, and all of that. If you want to get started with a strong footing, having a little bit of art background, artistic endeavors and dipping your toes into some creative processes helps in getting used to it. That way by the time you get into your process of world building, you're not spending more time figuring things out, you can actually spend time doing what you want to do and realizing your ideas the way that you want it to be. Just like everything else, you know, learn the basics and learn the fundamentals so that you can start with a strong footing.
Are there any software tools in particular that you like that made life easier for you in the process and the creation process that you'd like to share or recommend with the audience?
First, tools are very subjective, right? Everyone has their own preference of tools. Some people love modeling in Maya, but other people love modeling in Blender. So it's not my place to recommend certain tools. But one thing that I think can work universally for a lot of people, and for myself included, is PureRef. It's software where you can copy and paste any picture you see on the internet or anywhere. Basically, you can drag and drop it into the reference boards and you can organize it and you can place as many pictures as you want to. You can have like thousands of pictures there and you can have it stay on top of your windows, you know, on top of software that you're working on. I have a light up vertical monitor where I would have just this board of reference to my right side and as I'm working on my front monitor, I just glance over and look at the reference as I work, and it helps a lot. Having a reference is fundamental, it's critical, you know, driving ideas and inspiration from other works and things you see. That's why a place like Pinterest is so popular for, you know, reference. I used to hate Pinterest with a passion like, why is every picture I choose to add up on Pinterest? But it's a great place to get reference, and you can save those references into PureRef and have it compile based on the project. Every project I make has a separate folder. For example, a project I have on Egypt. In there, there's a PureRef with all the Egypt references, and they go into different sections of the pyramids, the interiors, the river, the characters. They're all separate in their own little area, and they are all just references from the internet. So I feel like it's something really useful for basically everybody, honestly. I always recommend this to every single person. Not just for world creation, this is applies to everything. Drawing, 3D modeling, PureRef is amazing for that.
Can you share advice on how newer creators and social VR users in general can take care of their mental health and their physical health as they spend time in social VR and VR in general?
Of course. Yeah, this is a heavy one, but for the longest time I used to be slightly distrusting of people, especially in the earlier days. I was a very introverted person and I generally keep people at an arms length when it comes to friendship and whatnot. It was just a lot of stuff growing up and learning more about the world and just trying to be slightly skeptical of people’s true intentions and whatnot. But with more time that I spent in VRChat, I learned of the genuine sincerity that many people offer. Obviously, there's good and bad, right? There's gotta be bad actors, there's gotta be people with bad intentions who want to take advantage of you and stuff. That's everywhere in real life and on the internet. But when you know somebody long enough and you have this level of trust and bond that you have with somebody, it's kind of almost like a family. Even though you might have never met them before. It's just knowing the people that you connect with and spend enough time understanding them and seeing if they are the right person and the kind of friend and the kind of people you want to foster a relationship with. Obviously, you're gonna hear a lot of horror stories about people being taken advantage of or people being betrayed online and stuff like that. It happens, obviously, it happens.
There's no foolproof way to read people and it's much harder in VR where facial expressions and body language are more hidden. In real life, using our brains as human beings, we learn to read social facial structure and emotion expression as social cues. Like, oh, this person is not happy with what I'm talking about, or this person is enjoying what I'm saying. It's all that kind of stuff that you don't have the luxury of seeing here in VR. At least not yet. Eventually...hopefully the technology to understand each other will become accessible to everybody. But the subtle social cues are hidden for now and the only way to really find out is spending time and keeping a respect for yourself and also the people that you interact with. Just be sincere, be honest, and hopefully that also reflects back on the other person to you. You can foster a hopefully helpful and mutual relationship. It's a two-way street. I know that's kind of off topic a little bit from what you're asking, but it's the fundamental basis. Mental health, especially on VRChat, has a lot to do with the tie-in of social relationships.
For me, in my case, it was the relationship. It's slightly personal, but that's okay. I'm completely fine with it now. I'm fine with sharing it. I had a relationship for five years with somebody I met in VRChat. Really special. I think I met her around the time when I started making my first world, the first Shark's Fin Cafe. So it's been a long time. We knew each other for a long time and she was like my cheerleader. She always cheered me on, encouraged me to continue creating and more and more, the time goes where I want to have a future with both of us. That's why part of me pushed so hard creating worlds and creating experiences in VRChat. I wanted to become someone she can be proud of. Somebody successful to provide for us, have a career, live together, have our own place and whatnot. So when I was hired on VRChat, that was the biggest moment in my life. Telling her that I got the offer letter and we burst into tears of happiness. It was a wonderful time. But time goes on, that's the thing, right? One of the things that didn't work out for us was the physically long-distance relationship. And skinship. Skinship is like touch and hugs and all of that stuff. I think that's usually expected with a relationship, with a bond with somebody. We didn't have that for the longest time. Eventually it just didn't work out.
I suppose, because we were missing the really essential part of a relationship. I feel like that's a good reminder about when it comes to mental health and stuff in social VR. Having the social need that you need to be met is great, like talking with friends and people that you enjoy hanging out with. But it's also a reminder to have a balance and seeing other people and having a connection in real life. Having a physical connection with somebody you have in real life is also really important. VR is such a great place, a great supplement to alleviating some of your pain, some of your stress. And it did for me. It really did. It was the place for me to escape to when I was at my lowest point in my life and I didn't have anywhere else to go. So I escaped to VRChat surrounded by people that really care for me. I will never forget that. I can't imagine if I would have had to go through that alone. I don't know if I would have made it, to be honest with you here. But I was surrounded by people that really care for me, sincerely. That's the wonderful thing about VR. Your anxiety and your stress can be a form of escape and it can be a form of healing.
So it's all about the balance. It's all about knowing what is appropriate, what is moderation, what is appropriate for your situation. Always keep in mind that you don't use it as the only place that you can run away to, but also use it as a supplement to what you need to do in real life. Because for me, yeah, I ran away in real life. I escaped to VR. But I was also starting to try to take care of myself. You know, wake up early, eat the healthy meal, start working out and stuff. Those were a critical part of healing my mental health. I went to Venice, Italy. And obviously not everyone is going to be able to afford to go overseas or travel. I'm not saying that you have to do this to get better, obviously. But for me, it's just like exposing myself to different places and people and culture and seeing what more life has to offer in addition to the kind of the health that I'm getting in VR. It's part of what got me to this point to be able to move on and heal instead of just crying all the time in VR, staying in bed and not getting out. Not getting up and not eating and taking care of myself. I would have been in a worse place. So, yeah, balance. Balance.
Do you have any new worlds that you're building right now that you're able to tell us about? And do you know if it's like a timeline on that? And how can we stay updated on... How do you recommend we stay updated on what you're making?
Project: Lost Worlds. It's just the codename for it. It's probably not the actual world name, but the codename for it right now. This is something I've been wanting to do for the longest time, probably one of the first projects I wanted to do when I joined VRChat. You know about the movie Avatar, right? Like the blue alien people from another planet, and humans went there, and we became the bad guys? I saw that in the 3D IMAX years ago, and it was like, God, this is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life! I was so entranced by the beautiful forests, the bioluminescence and all the animals and all the floating aliens. I'm like, Oh, God, I want to be there. I want to be there! Obviously, it's a piece of fiction, and who knows when we're going to try to like go to another planet. It's probably not in my lifetime. But I want to make that reality. Kind of come back to the wishes and dreams being something that you can experience. First time when I joined, I miserably failed, because I had no idea what I'm doing. I completely abandoned that. Then probably like two, two and a half years into world creation, I tried it again, and I did okay. I was okay with it. One of the projects that came out of that was Pandora Night. At the time, I feel like I didn't have enough experience. I was like, okay, I did okay, but I could learn more. I kind of put it on the back burner a little bit, and I explored other interests. That's how all this other work came about after Pandora Night.
But now I feel I'm ready. I feel like I'm truly ready. Obviously not going to be as ready as I am when I'm five years down the line. Obviously, I'm going to learn more, going to be better at this. But I feel like if I'm going to wait forever, then what's the point, right? So I want to make this a reality. This year I'm aiming for the Venice Film Festival. I am aiming to get this released and show the world at the Venice International Film Festival this year, which is when I intend to come back. Hopefully I can deliver within late August, the hard deadline for me for it to get done. But I'm excited. And obviously, if you want to keep in touch with that and where to go, join my VRChat group, Finsworks Interactive, or follow me on Twitter/X.